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Thread: Proposed Feinstein Ban

  1. #1

    Default Proposed Feinstein Ban

    Try this again-see if I can get it right:Gun control has been on the minds of our society and politicians over the past year after high profile shootings such as in Newtown, Conn., and Aurora, Colo. Just recently the summary of a new Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) being proposed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) was released. It's more aggressive than the one that was passed in 1994, and it doubles down on the same failed policy that did little to address gun violence. Let's break it down.

    The new bill would ban the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:

    -120 specifically-named firearm;

    -Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one military characteristic;

    -Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;

    So it expands the list of banned firearms and reduces the requirement of two military characteristics down to one. Remember, these military characteristics have no bearing on the lethality of the firearm. In addition, the bill is banning all semiautomatic rifles, handguns, and shotguns that "can" accept a detachable magazine and those that have fixed magazines. What this does is basically ban all semiautomatics and firearms without detachable magazines (harder to reload) that accept more than ten rounds.

    It's also worth pointing out the language here that it bans the "sale, ban, importation, and manufacturing." So what that means is that once you own one, its yours. You can't sell or transfer it to anyone else. So what happens if you pass away? Does the government then confiscate it?

    The new bill would strengthen the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:

    -Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;

    -Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test;

    -Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans;

    Again, they are banning another range of weapons with certain cosmetic characteristics. We should also note the irony in that bullet buttons were designed to make firearms harder to reload than a traditional semiautomatic. Bullet buttons are normal in California (Feinstein's home state), and they do actually accomplish what the senator wants (harder to reload guns), but not happy with that Feinstein has decided that these need to be banned too.

    -Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

    Nothing new here. The criminals response? Carry more magazines, as we've seen in Virginia Tech where the shooter brought nineteen loaded magazines for his two handguns and Columbine where they brought 13 extra magazines. (Note: there is also a separate bill which focuses primarily on limiting magazine size)

    -Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:

    -Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment

    -Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes and

    -Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons

    Sounds good right? Except that if you think about it, it boils down to a list of firearms that you can buy. I wonder if the good old musket is going to be on that list! We'll have to see what our government think we should be allowed to own.

    -Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:

    -Background check of owner and any transferee;

    -Type and serial number of the firearm;

    -Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;

    -Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and

    -Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration

    And here at the bottom we have the most egregious part. Grandfathered firearms must be registered under this bill. Keep in mind that there is an estimated 9 to 10 million AR-15's in circulation. And these are just one model of firearm that needs to be registered as this bill seeks to cover most semiautomatics ever made. One could argue that this amounts to a registry of firearm owners in the U.S. But think about what else is being proposed; a background check of all owners who are having their firearms registered including keeping photographs and fingerprints (much like we do for criminals).

    Our beleaguered and understaffed BATF already has trouble enforcing existing laws with 4,000 employees, so how are they going to handle this task of creating a national registration database along with conducting millions if not tens of millions of background checks and processing of paperwork, considering that the BATF only processes around 90,000 applications yearly at the moment? Maybe just as important, who is going to pay for that?

    What's even more diabolic in Feinstein's presentation of this new AWB is her use of sources that she misrepresents to back up her proposed legislation. For the most part, the studies linked on her site point out that assault weapons only make up a small fraction of gun crime, and that her original AWB was minimally effective. For example, Feinstein links to this study where she then says:

    "Jeffrey Roth and Christopher Koper find that the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban was responsible for a 6.7 percent decrease in total gun murders, holding all other factors equal."

    However, going to the original source:

    "At best, the assault weapons ban can have only a limited effect on total gun murders, because the banned weapons and magazines were never involved in more than a modest fraction of all gun murders. Our best estimate is that the ban contributed to a 6.7 percent decrease in total gun murders between 1994 and 1995, beyond what would have been expected in view of ongoing crime, demographic, and economic trends. However, with only one year of post-ban data, we cannot rule out the possibility that this decrease reflects chance year-to-year variation rather than a true effect of the ban. Nor can we rule out effects of other features of the 1994 Crime Act or a host of state and local initiatives that took place simultaneously."

    Let's take a look at another source. Feinstein claims:

    "A recent study by the Violence Policy Center finds that between 2005 and 2007, one in four law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty was killed with an assault weapon."

    However that's not what the study states. The data which she is referencing studies 64 incidents that already involve "assault weapons" of which also involved law enforcement. The study actually says that out of the 64 incidents that involve assault weapons, four ended in at least one law enforcement fatality, not that one in four officers are killed by assault weapons.

    One begins to wonder if Feinstein is even reading these studies as she is grossly misstating the data from her own sources and they conclude that the AWB did not work. What is worse is that her sources offer alternative methods of curbing gun violence that do work. Gun buybacks in urban areas, targeting hot spots for drug and gang violence, cracking down on straw purchasers, and requiring background checks for all purchases and transfers of firearms are just some of the solutions that were brought forth, but unfortunately not recognized by Feinstein. If we are worried about public safety and gun violence, shouldn't we actually consider the advice proffered by law enforcement practitioners in these studies?

    We all know gun control politicians are aiming to ban guns to further their political agenda. This legislation does nothing to prevent the next Sandy Hook or Virginia Tech mass shooting as even Michael Bloomberg points out. I've already detailed in a previous article how the previous ban was not effective, and that this discussion is taking away from addressing the underlying cause of violence in our society. This legislation is just further proof that we need to question the motives of our politicians as this has nothing to do with public safety but everything to do with banning guns.

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charleslee View Post

    The new bill would ban the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:

    -120 specifically-named firearm;
    Where can we find a list of the 120 specifically named firearms? I tried google searching this but didn't come up with much...

  3. #3

    Default List

    I doubt you can get it-it's not a bill yet. The old Assualt Weapons Bill banned 19 firearms & we thought that was a lot. Imagine this friggin' thing? 120!!! They would like to ban all semi's. Of course some want all banned. Now I hear the O administration is going around the NRA to try to institute a national registry (this w/ happen), tighten up mental health checks (fine) & they're garnering support from businesses like Walmart & other areas. Might have to just go to Target henceforth. No problem, it's nicer & diagonally across the damn street from Wally'sWorld.

  4. #4

    Default

    registration leads to confiscation!

    just thought id add some extra paranoia.

    cant wait to see what other trash is added to F's bill.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Its unfortunate that common sense reforms & this legislation are two wildly diff animals. None of the line items are designed to do anything but remove firearms from the avg Joe. Even the mental health line item is suspect, its going to not only give the govt access to your entire prescription med history, but will allow them to deny you your 2A rights based on what they find. You might think: thats fine if its limited to SSRIs, but will it be? & with something like 3 billion pill variants prescribed last year, how many Americans does that impact? How many should even be on these drugs, which are inexorably linked to suicidal, & occassionally homicidal, behavior? & who is going to make the distinction as to who, if any, of these people get to own firearms?

    Its a complex problem that is clearly over most of our legislator's heads, but Obama will push through whatever control measures he can, as will livelong gun-grabbers like Feinstein, Schumer & Pelosi. Thats why I always vote pro-2A. I still proudly admit I voted for Bush in 2004 over Kerry, & have never/will never vote for a senator from arguably THE most restrictive state in America for gun/knife ownership (IL). Is this too political? I hope not.

    Perhaps the pundits should look to the pharmaceutical companies, & their respective backing by the medical community, as they dope up America, to share in this National blame-game. Everyday there's some wacky new drug advertised. The prescription medication sector is accountable for these mass killings, and for the national opiate epidemic, & its time we point the finger at them & demand reforms. They are powerful & rake in billion$ that get kicked to DC in campaign contributions tho, so dont expect much to happen anytime soon. Its all as ridiculous as the Federal Switchblade Act.





  6. Default

    FYI - Gunny is an honorary member of the NRA. Yet another darn good reasons for sending funds to NRA to support all your firearm rights and protect your 2nd amendment rights.

    Get the facts and study them, so you can vocal on the issues and thort dead in its tracks the misguiding and misinformation the anti-gun groups use as propaganda. Its much harder to get though to someone once they have developed a certain mind set, however if met on the moment with corrective facts; the low information minded individual will often remain open to hear more facts. Often, this leads to enlightnment and bliss to that individual who has a hard time on their own developing anything that remotely resembles complex thought pattens.

    I had recently met acquaintance with a young middle age well built guy. He heard me talking with another fellow about gun ban issues and felt compelled to smoose his way into our chat.
    He said there is no reason for a high cap mag, you only need a few rounds for self-protection if you are a good shot.

    I asked him how many rounds do you think I should have? He said less the ten rounds is more than enough, more like 7.

    I said when practicing it takes several rounds ( groupings) to find your repeatable zone. After you find were you are at in your groupings you need to find your corrections. Then you need several groupings to gauge and perfect you groupings.
    So in essence, practice and training becomes far less effective when you have only a few rounds and need to stop wait and reload and reset. So obvisouly using a high cap mag is practical isn't it?

    Then I said hunting and self-protection hand guns are not the only favorite pastime, most gun owners enjoy plinking and target shooting too. Plinking is not fun with just 10 rounds.

    The guy mumbled and then showed a defensive posture ( because I had countered his misconception ), he then boasted I was in the military and shot the AR15 and people don't need military riffles. I told him the military uses the select fire m16 full auto. The AR15 is just a regular riffle semi-auto and has been in the civilian market for well over 50 years now and is no different than any other riffle that is semi-auto. Any difference detween that is purely cosmetics. The military has chosen to arm much of our infantry NOW with just civilian type semi-auto ONLY riffles in order to increase marksmanship and force use of better tactics. The problem I have with that is the last ditch effort to be able to use suppressive full- auto fire control if need be.

    I said actually there are lots of hunters been using AR15 for the last ten years and more than ever and its growing. Coyote fox and ground hogs that kill there livestock and it doubles as protection while out in remote lands, just to name a few.

    Now the well metrosexual dressed man conforms a stiffer posture with a slight ease up on tone,

    and says he " trained on the Berrata 50 cal. , Now that was fun!" He said the two highest moments of his life was first when his baby was born, and second when he got to shot the Berrata 50 cal.

    I asked him if he ment the Barret 50 cal. I said those are pretty obnoxious guns the breaks on them blast around you pretty hard.

    He said : it wasn't that bad, ( bull shit ) and said they really aren't accurate far out there. ( bull shit ) And people don't have any reason to own one of those, you can't hunt a dear with it as it would just go straight through a dear and blow a huge hole in it. Where are you going to shot it around here?

    I informed him : you have to drive about an hour and a half to get to a 50 calibre rated range but its up to you and not close but yes you can shoot one technically around here then.

    Most guys just shoot them in the desert but the are lots of long distance ranges that have competitions and target shooting sports. I corrected his quote on 10.00 a round to a 5.00 a round expense but its not for the average purse strings. Most are well off successful individuals that can afford to shoot the 50 cal. despite extreme prices of the riffles, its feeding it that gets prohibitive to shoot. I told him any thing over a 50 cal is generally considered a DD-destructive device.
    I asked him when the last time someone robbed a bank with a 50 cal or committed a violent crime with a 50 cal.
    What I wanted to ask the guy is why would you not want to have a 50 cal if it was that much fun to shoot from his own words!

    Despite this guy was twice as tall as me and twice as well off as me, he had found his confident dapper boasts of misinformation and misconceptions (with the help of the low information agenda driven media); more social embarrassment then he had probably ever had in his near life.

    As I left the metro stop, I wondered if I liberated his mind or just battle hardened the chauvinistic conformist.

    What I recently am wondering is if its the politicians who receive most of the finical support from special interest groups like the Moveon.ORG and the AmericanProgress.ORG, have an underlining motive of de-masculinating our society. That is with much of the recent policy issues that have been pursued.

    AS this is guns fit into the realm of mostly male dominated hobbies, sports and collections. A large win for anti-gun groups in essence would be a big win in the social battle to a feminist to de-masculinate men, would it not? Could this issue be more about a hidden social battle than preventing any Violence or Safety? If you dont realize, the heads and chiefs of many offices, political appointees in office Now are GLBT. That stands for Gay Lesbian Bi-Sexual and Transgender if you didn't know. They also have a very powerful political predominating presence that has barreled right in.

    Are the chickens coming to roost?


    Well there are some provocative things to look into for yourself and ponder.


    In the mean time there is hope. We just had a young teenage girl in think 14 come with her father to the NRA range to join us. After about a half hour, she was getting comfortable with all the noise factor and we introduced her to to several things after shooting the 22 cal riffles. She shot a semi-automatic pistol a Glock 9mm with pretty darn impressive results. The groupings were about four inches at ten feet with repeatability. Yea I mean really impressive actually better than me the first time shooting a pistol.
    Then she wanted to try the AR15 which she did well with but she did complain it was too loud. I think she just needed a little more time out on the range to warm up to it.
    She had shot a 22 riffle before with her day in a prairie.
    The point I'm making is it was her first time out to a live fire range it takes a good amount of bravery at any age first time for that. It wasn't before long that she gained confidence desire and excelled quite admirably.

    She cant wait to go again.


    Aaron
    Last edited by Twizzler; 01-20-2013 at 02:46 PM.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twizzler View Post

    What I recently am wondering is if its the politicians who receive most of the finical support from special interest groups like the Moveon.ORG and the AmericanProgress.ORG, have an underlining motive of de-masculinating our society. That is with much of the recent policy issues that have been pursued.

    AS this is guns fit into the realm of mostly male dominated hobbies, sports and collections. A large win for anti-gun groups in essence would be a big win in the social battle to a feminist to de-masculinate men, would it not? Could this issue be more about a hidden social battle than preventing any Violence or Safety? If you dont realize, the heads and chiefs of many offices, political appointees in office Now are GLBT. That stands for Gay Lesbian Bi-Sexual and Transgender if you didn't know. They also have a very powerful political predominating presence that has barreled right in.

    You are probably wondering how did that get in there. Well partly because I heard this coming from a woman "it sure seems to me we are trying to de-masculinate our society." " These butches and fembots are getting rid of all the men" Yes this came from a woman.

    So, easy to put together the math. The proof was in every season finale of Surviours television show. The women bunched together and weeded out the men. Happened year after year on the show, so predictable.

    The pro-women leadership moment and pro-GLBT and pro-african leadership moment is just a nice way of biasing part of our society out, non of which are based on moral justification of best person forward. Only liberal promotion.
    Since this " purification " is now well established, their base has really grown pretty strong now in government high paying jobs.
    Every single replacement/ weed out is a guaranteed leftist influence and hard liberal democrat vote.

    Bet your ass they dont like your testosterone and your guns.

    We may need a male bill of right soon.

    Aaron

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